Monsters and How they Work... Author Rickstavern Orker Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 74 Back to top Message PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Monsters and how they work. Reply with quote I need help to get some of my abominable creations to pose more of a challenge. It seems that no matter what I change, these beasts simply cannot hit my party when using their normal attacks. The default attack that most all monsters have (0x000e0001) just misses 99.9% of the time. How can I make this work? Raising monster dex seems to do nothing but to insure that they will get in the initial attacks. Raising monster strength didn't do anything either. If there was a way to add +tohit to this it might work, but with my party sitting at an easy -30AC all around (which can be easily done) they just seem immune to normal attacks. Anyone have some experience that they can share? Thanks Added a few new images. http://photos.yahoo.com/rickstavern@swbell.net View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author origen Stalker Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 740 Back to top Message PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: Reply with quote My characters are still entry-level (I think 1 may be as high as 7), and their AC's are all still positive. At this point, I am getting hit fairly regularly with my monster attacks. I was actually worries that I made the monsters too difficult, as I have to run and heal after almost every battle. _________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Author Rickstavern Orker Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 74 Back to top Message PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject: Reply with quote After speaking with support, it appears that this is a limitation of the current system. It is possible that monsters will be modified so that they are more like player characters, but with the current game engine monsters get no +to-hit. There are a ouple of ways to skirt around this issue, so I should be able to continue work for now. View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author origen Stalker Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 740 Back to top Message PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote What ways do you have to work around this issue? Perhaps it can help some other modders. _________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Author Growler Stone Cleric Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 1223 Back to top Message PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: Reply with quote For better luck (helps +2hit?), how 'bout sending 'em to the temple with lots o' gold in their vest pockets? (just gotta make sure they tithe properly in 500gp increments rather than eat the priests!) Or, if you don't trust yer own monsters with loads o' gold & slow-moving monks, then mebe jack their dex? (seems that should help 2 hit). Razz _________________ No Contraries : No Progression. Opposition is true friendship, unless one is opposed to true friendship or (try) Resisting here http://www.cafepress.com/notheresistor View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author origen Stalker Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 740 Back to top Message PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: Reply with quote I believe the higher dex only lets them swing first, but they still don't hit anything. _________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Author ShadoKnight Townie Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 23 Back to top Message PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote IIRC (I don't have the code at-hand to check) the to-hit computation is based on the comparitive DX of the monster and the player, modified by the AC. If the AC is low enough, then the DX values really won't matter (this is probably a bug, or imbalance, in the combat system). Basically, once you get to -10 AC, you're very unlikely to be hit by a basic attack, and *certainly* by -20, you're essentially immune to standard bashing. As several have pointed out, DX also determines attack order, so if you have special attacks that can hurt those -20AC folks, a high DX will give you a better chance of getting them off first. And for completeness - damage is based on ST, almost entirely. SK View user's profile Send private message Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote OK i printed out the monster tutorial. I'm going to try to create some of my own monsters. I got some pictures from the D+D monster manual that I would like to use. Like to create an Otyugh, Gelatinous Cube, + some Doom Guards' as Xoram's minions. Who knows. I'll see what happens. _________________ Chewie get us out of here! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote OK I read through the monster tutorial + monster files. Will take a while to get used to. Can someone give a brief run through on what to do to create a monster? Here is what I have so far. Code: Otyugh Otyughs #ST IQ WI DX CN CH CO LK AC 11 5 12 10 13 6 1 10 3 5 -5 5 -5 5 -5 4 5 18 5 0 36 0 0 0 100 50 20 10 pics/monsters/otyugh.dat Otyugh 1 0 2 0x000e0001 random 200 1d3+0 Ruby 500 _________________ Chewie get us out of here! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author Rickstavern Orker Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 74 Back to top Message PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote warning: A complete monster.txt file has never been supplied to us. There are entries missing and creating a new dat file will actually break a couple of game events Looks like you already have it complete. This is all pretty straightforward as explained in the tutorial. I'll add in a few extra comments Code: Otyugh Otyughs #ST IQ WI DX CN CH CO LK AC 11 5 12 10 13 6 1 10 3 # The elements are in the order FIRE, EARTH, AIR, WATER 5 -5 5 -5 5 -5 # attacks, back-damage, monster type, level, gender 4 5 18 5 0 # MaxHP HPVariance 36 0 # MaxSP SPVariance 0 0 # MaxXP XPVariance 100 50 # MaxGP GPVariance 20 10 #pics/monsters/otyugh.dat Otyugh # skills, spells, item entries 1 0 2 0x000e0001 # d+)> random 200 1d3+0 Ruby 500 It's a low level monster (level 5) but it's number of attacks is 4. That sucker is gonna hit pretty hard. The line pics/monsters/otyugh.dat needs to be commented or removed. In the above code I commented the line. You just need to reference the name from picindex.dat for the picture that you will use which in this case is 'Otyugh'. If you are planning to use some new pictures then you have to create the entries in the picindex file yourself, but I think you've already done that before. If you want to give your creation additional skills then you will need to comb through the actions.dat file using the action editor. You can also create new actions, but it's a lot of trouble unless you are really, really serious about it. I thinks it's better to be a little frugal with the item rewards. The original game just threw tons of junk at you. I thought it was a bit unbalanced, but maybe that's just me. ------ Once you have added this entry into the monsters.txt file (comes with the modding tools) you need to compile a new monsters.dat file. Use the program mtcompile.exe That's pretty much it. You can now reference the monster by name in any script or monster cfg file. warning: A complete monster.txt file has never been supplied to us. There are entries missing and creating a new dat file will actually break a couple of game events View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author Growler Stone Cleric Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 1223 Back to top Message PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: Reply with quote Is it just me, or do Townies seem to have an unnatural (preternatural?) ability to keep getting licks in even after yer crew is well-advanced & has low A.C.?!? Not to suggest they were inflicting much damage, but just their angry-mob-mentality-ability to get licks in.. mebe their pitchforks are +7 to hit. Confused _________________ No Contraries : No Progression. Opposition is true friendship, unless one is opposed to true friendship or (try) Resisting here http://www.cafepress.com/notheresistor View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author Meanwhile War Monger Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 198 Back to top Message PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Monsters and how they work (The short version) Reply with quote Monsters and how they work (The short version) As long as you are out there adventuring, they will be out there trying to kill you. That's what they do! That's all they do! Very Happy _________________ Defenders fell, their bane come true, Garth, Roscoe, Kylearan too! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: Reply with quote Rick: i have some more questions concerning monsters. I was able to compile and create a new monsters.dat file OK but I get an error message at the command prompt. I went in......... C:\dwtools\tools\monsters>mtcompile monsters.txt monsters.dat It ran through the list.... Red Dragon - done! Beholder - done! Argo - done! Black Claw Warlock - done! Giant Spider -done! Brideck - done! .........etc. etc. Inky - done! (included my new creation) Error <711>: Unexpected EOF on input file ! Here is what I have added to the monsters.txt file. Code: Inky Inkys #ST IQ WI DX CN CH CO LK AC 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 -15 # The elements are in the order FIRE, EARTH, AIR, WATER 20 -10 20 -10 20 -10 20 -10 # attacks, back-damage, monster type, level, gender 5 25 19 25 2 # MaxHP HPVariance 100 50 # MaxSP SPVariance 400 200 # MaxXP XPVariance 5000 1000 # MaxGP GPVariance 100 50 #pics/monsters/inky.dat inky 1 2 1 0x000e0001 0x0009000c 0x001f0011 random 200 1d1+0 # # spell: HEME(heal medium) # spell: LIST(lightning storm, 4d6 damage) # My other question is about the types of attacks. You have said in a previous post that.... "If you want to give your creation additional skills then you will need to comb through the actions.dat file using the action editor." I see where the actions.dat file is, but where is the action editor? I have been just looking through the monsters.txt file for reference. I figured the 0x000e0001 is the standard attack, but do I need to indicate somewhere where the amount of damage is? as in 2d4+2 or such. or does it do that automatically based on the # of Strength that I have provided? the 0x0009000c 0x001f0011 are from the black claw warlock monster. I believe they are as follows... # spell: HEME(heal medium) # spell: LIST(lightning storm, 4d6 damage) _________________ Chewie get us out of here! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: Reply with quote Well I was able to fight Inky, but there must be something not quite right about it. He always appears at 10 feet away. However I have him listed as starting at 40 feet away in the mon.cfg file. So far I've only seen him attack (using the regular attack) hitting for maybe a maximum of 10-15 or so. Haven't seen him cast either of the 2 spells he has, so i think i missed a step somewhere along the way. Here is what I have in the mon.cfg file. Code: # Xoram's Tower monsters #0 0 # 1 50 # Inky 1 3 40 60 20 0 23 _________________ Chewie get us out of here! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: Reply with quote Interestingly enough, Inky decided he wanted to join my team. Very Happy of course though i'm running into the same issue about having too low AC for the evil Inky's to hit me, and my good Inky was not able to hit any of the evil Inky's in battle either. _________________ Chewie get us out of here! Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote It has been a while, but I think the hit damage is based on Strength and some other values, although I forget which. You can not edit that one. _________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Author dragonbait Gnomicron Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 431 Back to top Message PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Monsters and how they work. Reply with quote Rickstavern wrote: It seems that no matter what I change, these beasts simply cannot hit my party when using their normal attacks. The default attack that most all monsters have (0x000e0001) just misses 99.9% of the time. How can I make this work? Raising monster dex seems to do nothing but to insure that they will get in the initial attacks. Raising monster strength didn't do anything either. If there was a way to add +tohit to this it might work, but with my party sitting at an easy -30AC all around (which can be easily done) they just seem immune to normal attacks. So would a workaround be to leave out the default attack (0x000e0001) and just use a different attack? For Inky it seems that I have 3 styles of attack.... 0x000e0001 0x0009000c 0x001f0011 yet only the default 0x000e0001 seems to be working as Inky does nothing but normal attacks which are innefective against anyone with a -10 AC. Maybe by removing the default and using only alternate attack styles? I'll have to test it out later _________________ Chewie get us out of here! View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Author origen Stalker Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 740 Back to top Message PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: Reply with quote That should work. You do not have to include the default, from what I remember. I may be wrong, though. _________________ I reject your reality, and substitute my own. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Author Growler Stone Cleric Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 1223 Back to top Message PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote origen wrote: It has been a while, but I think the hit damage is based on Strength and some other values, although I forget which. You can not edit that one. ..other values such as possibly.. luck? meanness? weapon (esp. any extra +damage) ? _________________ No Contraries : No Progression. Opposition is true friendship, unless one is opposed to true friendship or (try) Resisting here http://www.cafepress.com/notheresistor